'Skins' veteran Hannah Murray

Dev Patel may currently be the best-known Skins alum but I am confident that in time Hannah Murray will come in second. Just about every viewer agrees that she was phenomenal on the show as the loony, anorexic Cassie—a character with whom she still feels deeply connected—and despite presently doing time at Cambridge University, where she is studying English, she shows absolutely no inclination of allowing her acting to slide. Here I speak with her about her best-known role, her recent foray into theatre, her fondness for literature and other such topics.

I guess we should start with Skins. How did you become involved initially with the TV show?
They were holding open auditions in Bristol, where I lived and where the show is set, which I found out about through a local youth theatre that I was involved in. Initially I remember wanting to go along more because it would be good experience to audition for something - I didn't think I had a chance of getting a part. But I met Jane Ripley the casting director who said they'd like to see me again and then I had two more auditions with the directors and producers before I found out I got the part on my 17th birthday.

What about this series do you think helped it to be received so successfully?
I think there was sort of a gap that needed to be filled for something like Skins. On British TV before Skins came out, the only teen dramas that were on were American imports, so I think it was really appealing for a British audience in that it was closer to to what their lives were like - rather than something like The OC which is set in a very different world. I also think it has a really great mix of comedy and drama and that all the characters feel very real and the series allows you to get to know them really well.

Did you and the other actors have any input regarding characterization or storylines?
To some extent. We weren't ever involved in the actual writers' meetings which went on in London but the writers did come down to Bristol and were around a lot and were very keen to hear our opinions, particularly about how our characters might react to or feel about things.

Regarding your character Cassie, what was your relationship with her like—and how did (or do) you view her as a character?
I feel quite protective of her in many ways. I think that having had a closer relationship with her makes me have rather different ideas about her than a lot of people do. One big difference is that I never found her funny, I always found her sad, whereas I think some people view her as having very comic moments. I also got quiet annoyed when people described her to me as ditzy, as I always felt she was incredibly intelligent - she sees through a lot of other characters, such as Tony, for example - and that the kind of dizziness that she puts across is actually a defense mechanism. And, although this might annoy some people, I never believed in the relationship between her and Sid and didn't really think they should be together. I thought her feelings for him were the result of misplaced affection based on low self-esteem.

Rather remarkable about the character are her similarities to Hamlet’s Ophelia. To your knowledge, was she in any way an intentional update of that character—and if not, what do you have to say about the remarkable similarities?
Are they that remarkable? Aside from the fact they both go a bit mental... I'm pretty sure Ophelia wasn't a major influence - at least, nobody ever spoke to me about it if she was. There was actually a scene written for series 2 which didn't make it to the final draft where Cassie was in the bath with flowers, to resemble the painting of Ophelia drowning, so I suppose the connection had been made.

Then you went and did That Face on the West End. How did you get involved with that play and what drew you to it?
I very first heard about it when I worked with Matt Smith on In Bruges (which we both eventually got cut out of), and at that time he was rehearsing for the original run of the play at the Royal Court and said I should come and see it. It sold out and I didn't get to see it, but I did read a copy of the script and thought it was really fantastic. Me and Matt have the same agent and when he first told me it was transferring to the West End my reaction was "oh great, I'll get to see it this time," but then a month or so later I got asked to audition for it. The main thing that drew me to it was just how incredible the writing is, it's so dark and funny and clever, and Mia, the character I played, is a really amazing part. I was also terrified of the idea of doing a play and so for that reason really wanted to because I knew it would be a challenge.

What dynamics about stage acting do you find compelling (especially as compared to film acting)?
I think there's something so exciting about the immediacy of it, that you're right there in front the audience, which also makes it a more collective experience. I like that you get to play out the whole piece in one go and in order, unlike film or TV where things can feel a bit bitty and it can be frustrating doing things out of sequence. The thing that I was most surprised I enjoyed was the repetition of it. I was scared it would get boring but actually it gives you this wonderful opportunity to rediscover things and experiment, there's a great sense of possibility with each show you do.

What was it like shooting your upcoming film Womb with Eva Green?
I got to work with Matt Smith again! For the third time. In That Face we were brother and sister and in Womb we play boyfriend and girlfriend which was a bit of an odd transition but it was really nice to work with someone who I knew already and get on with really well and who's also a brilliant actor. Eva was fantastic as well, it was a privilege to get to work with her. This film's this really beautiful, strange story about human cloning and getting to be part of that was a very cool experience.

Could you please tell me about your upcoming film Chatroom?
It's based on a play by Enda Walsh, who also wrote the screenplay for the film, which was on at the National Theatre a few years ago. It's about a group of teenagers who meet online, one of whom is very charismatic and persuasive, and ends up trying to get another member of the group to commit suicide. I play a girl called Emily who's very dowdy and naive and is bored and frustrated with her life offline. Hideo Nakata is directing. We started filming a couple of weeks ago now and I'm very excited about it.

How did you get involved? What, if anything, do you have to say about the cast (which includes fellow up-and-comers Aaron Johnson and Imogen Poots)?
I first auditioned for it over a year ago, I think in May 2008. There was a very long wait to hear back because they had to send the tapes over to Japan for Hideo to watch them and then the film got postponed and then eventually in October I went back in to read with a group of actors going for some of the other parts and had a couple more auditions like that before I found out I got the part in February. So a very long audition process. The cast is a lovely group of people who are all very talented and it's really exciting to work with all of them. We're all almost exactly the same age as well (I think we're all 20 apart from Aaron who's 19), which means we have lots in common and there's a great atmosphere on set as we get on really well.

Do you feel like there’s a difference in the way the U.S. and the U.K. approach acting and the entertainment industry? What difference do you think there is?
I don't know if I'm really qualified to say as I've never done any work in the U.S. apart from a week filming in New York for Skins. The only difference I noticed then was that they refer to actors as "the talent", which I did find a bit weird.

How are you enjoying your studies at Cambridge? How is that working out alongside your career as an actress?
At the moment it's working out incredibly well. I've been so lucky as I was able to do Womb over my Easter break and now Chatroom fits into my summer holidays. Even though it can get a bit hectic I really like having both things going on at the same time and hopefully I'll be able to continue doing that.

Since a major in English is far more significantly suggestive of an actual interest in literature in England than it is in the States, what is your favorite thing about your studies thus far?
I just love the breadth of literature that we've been introduced to. Over the first two years of the course we cover from 1300 to the present day and I've read so many things that I never would've otherwise and lots of stuff that I'd never even heard of. I also like the rigorousness of being encouraged to examine things in very close detail, it's allows you to think in a completely different way.

What in particular do you love to read?
My favourite novel is Franny and Zooey by J. D. Salinger and I really love all of his stuff. Ulysses by James Joyce really blew my mind and I'm hoping to get a chance to re-read that soon. There is also a massive place in my heart for the Harry Potter series which I doubt will go away. In general I'd say I probably prefer reading novels to poetry, although I am a fan of e. e. cummings, Sylvia Plath, Emily Bronte and T. S. Eliot. Last term at Cambridge we spent the whole time on Shakespeare which was wonderful and I really enjoyed reading lots of his plays, although I find reading plays isn't usually half as good as seeing them.

I finally get to ask this question! In Lula you recently mentioned your interest in playing Camilla if there should ever be an adaptation of The Secret History, and I can’t stop thinking about how perfect that would be. Tell me what you love about the book, what your dream adaptation would be like—everything!
Ah! I feel like I've probably jinxed any possibility of this ever happening by mentioning it, but yeah, it is something I would absolutely love to do. It's one of those books, when I read it, where the story is just so compelling that you get completely caught up in it and stay up way too late to carry on reading. I also think because there's so much deceit going on in it, and quite a lot of weird formality and lots of layers of unspoken things and that's just so exciting as an actor. My dream adaptation ... I don't know, I think I'd just want it to be very true to the book.

Haven’t you been participating in Cambridge theatre productions? What is it like, considering the involvement you’ve had with a major TV show and a West End production, to be doing a college show (I’m sure there are both advantages and disadvantages over other sorts of productions)?
In my first term I was in a production of Rhinoceros by Eugene Ionesco, but I haven't been involved in anything since. It was enjoyable but I found it took up so much time and since I'm so busy with my course and with auditions and stuff like that it kind of left me with no time to just relax and left me a bit stressed out.

What sort of music do you like?
I try to listen to a really wide range of stuff. My favourite bands/people are probably The Beatles, Nirvana, Regina Spektor, The Smiths, Tom Waits and The Velvet Underground. I also really like a lot of 70s punk, a lot of folk, The Gerbils, Lethal Bizzle, Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Sleater Kinney, Rufus Wainwright, Destiny's Child, Johnny Cash, 20s jazz, early Rolling Stones, Nina Simone and M.I.A.

What is your life philosophy? (Yes, yes, I know—here we are with the twee questions.)
I read once that Katharine Hepburn said the important things in life were to work hard and to love someone, which I think is quite nice. I also think it's very important to try not to hold preconceptions and judge things on their individual merits.

Do you consider yourself happy? What makes you happy or how do you define happiness?
Okay, a big question. I do think that at the moment I'm pretty happy most of the time. I find I'm at my happiest when I feel busy and productive, when I feel like I'm making the most of my time.

For more on Hannah Murray, one can visit her IMDb page.
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Halloween, Alaska frontman James Diers

Halloween, Alaska isn't a city in the United States but a band made up of Minneapolitans. Their sound is roughly in line with that which you'd expect from a band with such a name: it's got that sparse, ever-so-slightly moody quality all about it. In April the band released their third album, Champagne Downtown, and on its behalf happily embarked on their first real tour; it was at the New York stop of this long-awaited undertaking that I had the opportunity to speak with frontman James Diers about Mineappolis, the band name, and Bob Dylan.

So where are you guys based?
We live in Minnesota, the Twin Cities area, and most of us grew up there, so that’s still home.

Have you guys done a lot of tours before or is the touring for this record the most you’ve done to date?
I mean, the touring that we’re doing on this record is going to be the most sort of concentrated. It’s a weird band, in that we’ve not toured a lot but we’ve been to some faraway… we’ve done a lot of one-off places, like London and Colorado and just random one-offs, but we haven’t done a lot of dedicated weeks of touring. So I think this record is our first opportunity to do that, just because with the timing of the last couple of records coming out it was difficult for everybody to carve out the time. Everybody—or I should say most of us—had other things to juggle with. But here we are!

How did you guys come together as a group?
David King, the drummer, and I had played together in a band called Love-Cars in Minneapolis and he in turn had been playing with this guy Ev Olcott in a band called 12 Rods… so, basically, just knowing each other in the Minneapolis music community. And David just had an idea—David’s a really active person in that community as a drummer, and he plays a lot of jazz, so he kind of brought the original four of us together with the idea in mind of doing something that was incorporating some synth and some electronics and whatever but different from other stuff that he had done. So he kind of got us in the same room together and then we started playing more and… yeah.

Could you talk about the Minneapolis music scene? Because it sounds like you guys were really involved in that community.
Yeah, sure: just between the four of us, we were fairly active with other groups, and then this one lasted a few years when we were trying to get more active again. You know it’s a really great place to play, the audiences are really nice, there’s a lot of different music represented, so we’re always really happy to be in Minneapolis or to be outside of Minneapolis representing it in some way. We’re pretty proud of that.

In my mind I’ve always associated Minneapolis with more of a literary community, probably because Neil Gaiman lives there and etcetera.
Yeah, as far as people who are from there, the Coen brothers are from there… and, yeah, there’s a history of some literary folks for sure.

It’s a really cool place.
It’s a really great arts community. In another interview we were talking about how people like to speculate about how it stays that way, and I think once it sort of got some traction as an arts community in the seventies or early eighties people really wanted to keep that going. Because, you know, four or five months out of the year it’s a really hard place to live with that weather. You want to have a lot going on to take your mind off that and get yourself through the winter.

Well, you could just as easily ask how NYC has stayed an arts community with prices rising so greatly.
That’s funny too, because people now… it’s like people just expect it. They expect that you’re going to have to go and be poor for however many decades so that you can pay your dues in New York. But it’s a great city. I think the institutions that are based in New York have as much to do with the actual artists that are based here, be it publications or, for a while, record labels. Maybe not so much any more. But, yeah, New York’s cool too.

And depending on who’s in power at any given time—I’m not Bloomberg’s biggest advocate, but he is supportive of the arts.
Yeah, and that counts for a lot.

So are you enjoying being in New York?
Yeah, very much! I mean, I’ve spent a lot of time in New York collectively over the years, and I always like being here, even when the weather’s not so nice. And it’s also really nice to be finally playing here with this band. As I told you, our whole touring history has been so limited that it feels so weird, what with as long as we’ve been playing, that we’ve never gotten around to playing a proper show in New York. So that’s good as well.

You’re in a cool space, too. Joe’s Pub is a cool space.
Yeah! We were doing the math here; maybe a lot of shows here were a little bit more subdued, and we’re trying to figure out, “Well, should we only play mellower stuff tonight or just kind of go for it?” So we’ll see what we come up with. But, anyway, yeah! It’s a really nice room.

How did you guys come up with the band name?
There’s not really a whole story behind it. David came up with it, and in some sort of abstract way it was evocative of what he was hearing as being kind of the palate for the band: something that maybe had a little bit of a moodiness to it, a bit of a sparseness to it.

Like a barrenness, sort of?
Yeah. Maybe. I think at the beginning a lot of the music by design was really sparse, and that’s changed a little bit—but, yeah, I suppose that’s sort of how it’s connected. But, yeah, David would be the last word on that. Unfortunately he’s not here! But, no, there’s not much of a big story behind it. It evokes something; they’re words that mean something to most people, whether it’s specific or not.

What’re some of Halloween, Alaska’s musical influences?
We’re all really big fans of a band called American Music Club; there’s a Scottish band called the Blue Nile that we all like quite a bit; there are… Everything But The Girl is a band that we like a lot. It might be different if we were coming in and looking at a specific part or a specific piece of music, in terms of what influence you’re bringing, but in the general sense if we wanted to have a sort of allegiance then those are some bands where we really support their creative agenda. And those are all bands that are maybe bygone by some standards, and certainly we listen to newer music too, but those are a few bands that we go back to quite often.

Well, bands that have been around for a while have had time to perfect their sound.
Yes, that’s also true. Yeah, there’s an authority with those bands, for sure.

It can also work the opposite way, though. For example, Bob Dylan is no where in the shape now that he was forty years ago…
Right! Right. And that’s funny too; we were just talking about how Bob Dylan has a new record out, and of course he’s a very iconic person so it’s not a surprise that people drop everything to check out the new Dylan record, but for whatever subtle differences there were between his last three or four records it’s like… they get scrutinized so heavily and people are trying to find what’s different about this one! [laughs] Maybe they don’t have to get scrutinized so heavily. Maybe it’s just a Bob Dylan record.

Well, no, what I mean is: I’ve heard that—aside from the fact that you’re seeing Dylan live—his concerts are a great disappointment, versus someone like Leonard Cohen who apparently is still amazing onstage.
That’s interesting, yeah. I saw Bob Dylan… my gosh, easily fifteen years ago, and I’d say it was kind of like that. I was gratified that I’d had that experience of seeing him while he’s alive and doing his thing, but it wasn’t like on its own merits it was a great show. I know what you mean.

For more about Halloween, Alaska, check out their MySpace or their website.
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Indie actress Olivia Thirlby

You've probably seen Olivia Thirlby around. You probably saw her in Juno, where she plays the titular character's best friend; maybe you also saw her in the recently released film What Goes Up, in which (to her delight) she worked with Josh Peck for the second time. Maybe you've seen her in one of the myriad other indie films in which she's been. You probably left the theatre wondering, "Who's that girl?" There's definitely something special about Olivia Thirlby. Maybe it's the fact that, unlike so many of her contemporaries, she actually has talent. Maybe it's the Brooklyn-NYC cool that radiates off her... to which, you know, I can relate, being a fellow resident of Brooklyn. In any event, she's definitely one of the most exciting young actors around, which becomes increasingly blatant over the course of this very interview. Enjoy.

Hey, Olivia?
Hey, how are you?

I’m good, how are you?
I am good, thanks.

Are you in L.A. right now, or—
Look at this weather. No, I’m in New York! You’re in New York too, right?

Yeah, I live in Brooklyn.
Me too. What’s up with this mist? I’ve been walking around in this shit all day. [laughs]

Yeah. Like two days ago it was ninety degrees and now it’s like fifty… I don’t know what happened.
Why me? [laughs]

There are tons of things I want to get to but let’s start with New York I Love You. Tell me about the segment you’re in.
Um… I’m in the segment that was directed by Brett Ratner, and it stars myself and Anton Yelchin and also James Caan—and I actually don’t really want to talk about what it’s about, because it’s only five minutes long and I don’t want to give it away. [laughs]

Okay, fair enough. What part of the city is it?
It takes place on the Upper West Side and in Central Park.

Excellent. Yeah, I know they did Paris, Je T’aime according to district, so I at least wanted to know that. By the way, how was it working with Anton?
Oh, yeah, he’s the sweetest. He’s a really, really nice, sweet guy and we had a total blast working together. I’ve truly fallen in love with him. I think he’s a really talented actor, too.

Yeah, he’s great. And right now he’s so busy with Star Trek and Terminator.
Yeah! I haven’t even seen Star Trek yet, actually, but I’ve heard it’s good.

It’s so good. You have to see it.
I’ve actually started working with Chris Pine right now, so I believe I’ll have to give it a good look!

Right, you're in the play Farragut North! I want to talk about that, definitely, but first I have another couple of questions about New York I Love You. How did you get involved?
I knew about the project already—I’d been contacted by my agent and manager—and then I read the script that was Brett’s and I agreed to do it. It’s pretty much the same topic as the other one.

Well, I figured that that might be the case, but you seem to do a lot of New York projects—which is pretty cool, but I was wondering whether or not it’s intentional.
You know, I think it’s just proximity. [laughs] It’s just happened that way, I guess. I mean, maybe I’m drawn to New York movies, or casting directors tend to think I’m right for New York movies because I’m from New York, but I don’t really know! It’s a coincidence.

Now I’d love to talk about Farragut North. In November the play was off-Broadway—
Yeah, it was at the Atlantic.

And John Gallagher Jr. was in the role Chris Pine is now playing in L.A. How did you—this play is basically your theatrical debut, so how did you decide to do this particular play?
Well, it was my first professional theatre gig, the first job that I had in theatre, but I come from theatre. I grew up doing all sorts of theatre all the time in school and I went to all these theatre summer camps, so that’s my true love, live acting for the stage. And I actually said to my manager, “At some point I really need to do a play because I’m scared if I don’t exercise these muscles they’re just going to atrophy. I’m going to live on the street because I’m not going to be able to do a play!” And the next thing that came around was Farragut North, which was something I had already been familiar with because it existed as a screenplay. And it was just an audition, just like any other. I’ve been to other theatre auditions where I haven’t gotten the part, so it was an audition just like any other and I guess it went kind of well.

[laughs]
I ended up getting the part, and then after that it was unstoppable.

You keep a lot of street cred for having your “theatrical debut” off-Broadway instead of on a big trumped-up flashy Broadway show, though.
I wouldn’t have gotten the part. [laughs]

Well, it’s just that it happens so much on Broadway—you see people known for film that suddenly decide to do something flashy and trumped-up, and it’s like the play’s irrelevant; it’s all about them, which is really frustrating.
Well, good, I’m glad you think so!

I’m really upset—I almost saw your play in November but in the end I couldn’t!
Well, if you find yourself in L.A. in July, there’s always then. But… you know. [laughs] Maybe after we do our little run here, we’ll come to Broadway. I think the whole cast would really love that. We wanted a Broadway run. We wanted to be transferred; we wanted our run to continue when we ended in November. So this is sort of like the half-fulfillment of our original wish. So maybe we’ll come back again and do it in New York… hopefully! That would be great.

I could definitely see that happening. One the one hand, you’ll have had an established run with good reviews in both New York and L.A., but there are names that would be recognizable to the ticket-buying public. So I think it’s very possible.
Yeah. I hope so! I don’t know, fingers crossed. Do you see any wood? I don’t see any wood because I’m on the street, but if you see any knock on it for me! [laughs]

Y’know, I’m just trying to imagine how you possib—you seem so busy. You have like fifty projects coming up.
Yeah… you know, these films are a lot of indie films where it takes a couple years after you make them for them to actually come to light, so it’s stuff that I’ve been working on over the past couple years and they’re posted on IMDb but they haven’t really… nothing official’s happening to them yet. You know, it’s just a collection of small films here and there. Stuff that I did with friends. The only actual film about to go out that I have is called The Answer Man, and that’s a really great film. I saw it at Sundance and I loved it and I just wanted to see it again and I just think it’s a great film. Good for the whole family, except for the little kids because there’s some language in it, but it’s good for all audiences.

Was that originally under another title? Was that originally under Arlen Faber?
Yeah.

I saw that around under its old title. That’s coming out later this year, right?
Yeah. It’s coming out—I don’t know when it’s coming out, actually! [her publicist taps in to say that it comes out July 24th] Oh, okay. Thanks! [laughs]

All right, July 24th. What’s it about?
It’s hard to explain in detail the basic gist of the plot, but it’s about love. It’s about love and trying to make sense of life and what it is what we’re all doing here. It has a beautiful message, but it never gets corny or overwrought or heavy, which I think is what’s really special about the tone of the film.

I can hear the street noise around you in the background. I’m like, “Yeah, that sounds like Manhattan to me.”
Can you really? I’m sitting on a fire hydrant. [laughs]

That’s great! I don’t think anybody’s ever said that to me over the phone.
[laughs] Yeah, I’m on the street.

Whereabouts are you?
I’m on 4th Avenue and 12th Street. I’m in front of a masquerade shop, because I’m killing time. When I’m done with this I’m going to go into the shop, because I want to buy a mask, so I’ve been sitting out here for the last forty-five minutes, just sitting on the phone on the fire hydrant. [laughs]

You’re postponing the inevitable by doing this interview.
Yeah. [laughs] Pretty much.

What’s with masquerades? In the last week I’ve had scads of people be like, “Oh, I’m going to a masquerade party next month.”
Well, it’s not a coincidence, I’m sure.

I bet there’s a gigantic masquerade conspiracy that’s just now surfacing.
[laughs] Sure.

Let’s talk about What Goes Up now, which is the second film you’ve done with Josh Peck.
Yeah! Yeah, we filmed this right after we filmed The Wackness, and it couldn’t have been more different of an environment. It was really fun! It was fun to show up and already have a buddy. [laughs] And we found out that The Wackness had gotten into Sundance while we were filming this one in Vancouver, so we had a little celebration.

Oh, that’s exciting!
And it was nice. Yeah, it’s really cool!

At the press day for The Wackness, Josh Peck mentioned that you two had gotten the offer to costar in another movie, as twins, which you understandably turned down.
Yeah. [laughs] Actually, we did consider it briefly. We were definitely not averse to working together again, in whatever relationship incarnation, but the financing for the movie sort of fell apart and it didn’t end up working out. But I think we would have done it! I think we would have. After playing lovers and then playing enemies, I think it would be very fitting if we had ended up playing siblings. [laughs]

I think any moviegoers that saw either of your other films together would have been squicked out by that, frankly.
Yeah, maybe you're right. [laughs]

Speaking of projects that fall apart or go on hiatus or have complications, is Parts per Billion still a project? I know you were attached to that for a while.
Yeah, it’s still around… basically, we couldn’t get the money. The finance world is really, really bad right now, and we had a window of time that everyone was available, and unfortunately we couldn’t get the money soon enough. And the writer/director actually just had a baby. So I think there’s been a lot of stuff for us to be on a little bit of a hold, but I’m really passionate about this project and so is everyone else involved and I’m sure—positive, in fact—that it will get made one day.

I was hearing a lot about this project and it looked really promising, but then Robert Pattinson had to pull out because of New Moon and it seemed to just kind of slip away.
Yeah. Well, that’s part of making movies: it’s not official until it happens, pretty much. Things are constantly changing, people and things are always subject to change, and there are just so many stars that have to align for everyone to show up on Day 1 on the set ready to shoot, and there’s just so much that has to happen before that. It can be really tricky to get it all together.

Right. You also are in an HBO TV pilot called Bored to Death, I’ve heard.
Yeah. It’s been great. I was actually just on the set, and I just love being on the show. I’m delighted by everything and I keep pushing myself and I love being with all these guys, and the show is fantastic and I’m really glad to be a part of it.

It was through one of the directors, Michael Lehmann, that I actually found out you were going to be on the show. I was like, “Wow!”
Yeah. I actually wasn’t in any of his episodes, though.

What’s it about?
Well, it’s kind of hard to explain the premise. I don’t think that there’s that much of a driving plot.

[laughs]
But I would basically say that Jason’s the main character and I play his ex-girlfriend. The series begins with me leaving him and moving out, and then I show up every couple of episodes to have an awkward encounter or to break his heart a little bit or do whatever it is that I do.

When you started by saying you were his ex-girlfriend, my mind went to Burn Notice.
[laughs] I’ve actually never seen that show.

You should. It’s very good. What TV do you watch?
I just got really into Rescue Me. That show is amazing. And then I’m addicted to the Daily Show. I watch every day. Um… that’s pretty much the only TV I watch consistently. I do have a few guilty pleasures when it comes to reality shows: I kind of love What Not To Wear. [laughs]

God only knows why, but I used to love that TLC show Ten Years Younger. I’d set the TV up to record episodes in the middle of the day and then I’d come home and watch them after school. This was back when I didn’t have any homework.
I hear ya, I hear ya. My life in high school was the same: I had far too much homework to ever consider doing anything fun. Other than acting!

Well, it was fine until this year, junior year, when… boom! Junior year is not a fun year.
Yeah, it’s really not. But it’ll pass. It must be almost over, though!

Yeah, it just ended, which makes me happy.
Well, congratulations! [laughs] I hope you have a good summer.

Yes, thank you! And you too.
[laughs]

Olivia Thirlby's film The Answer Man comes out July 24th, as you may have already gathered; her other film New York I Love You is released on October 16th; and her play Farragut North is playing at the Geffen Playhouse until July 26th.
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'Food, Inc.' director Robert Kenner

On the day I'm supposed to interview Robert Kenner by phone, I'm trapped in Central Park... so I head out about ten minutes before the interview to find a nice, quiet bench to sit on while I conduct the interview... and then my phone rings while I'm still getting situated, Kenner already on the other line. Two minutes later, we're talking about growth hormones and GMOs like old friends. Robert Kenner is the director of the new documentary Food, Inc., which examines the food industry and the fight that many of the big corporations put up to keep it shrouded in secrecy. It's been hailed as the film equivalent of Eric Schlosser's illuminating book Fast Food Nation, which increases the appropriateness of Schlosser's involvement with the film as a narrator. The film, however, isn't just about fast food but about the entire food industry—on which its director wants to shed as much light as possible. Enjoy the interview.

Uh… hey?
Hey, it’s Robert Kenner. I’m calling a few minutes early; is that cool?

Oh, uh… yeah, that’s totally fine. I wasn’t expecting you for another ten minutes, but that’s totally fine. We can do it now—first of all, tell me how you developed the idea that became the documentary Food, Inc.
Well, through many changes… I read Eric Schlosser’s book [Fast Food Nation] and thought that was very interesting, this idea of a world that’s become industrialized in fast food form. But then I realized that I didn’t want to make a movie about fast food, especially because Supersize Me had been out there, and I just felt like I wanted to make a film about all food. I wanted to make a film about where the food comes from. On the one hand, we’re feeding ourselves for less money than at any time in history, but we’re doing so at a really high cost and this cost is sort of hidden from us, and I thought we could have a conversation about it that could be really interesting. But, unfortunately, agribusiness was not interested in taking part in that conversation. There’s a real desire to maintain the delusion that we’re still growing food like we always have, on small farms with white picket fences and red barns, when in reality the food is coming from big factories. Mega-factories. So there was a lack of transparency that was frightening. You know, the lack of transparency was really what most concerned me, and the film started to become about that lack of transparency, which I hadn’t thought of when I began the film. So for me the most surprising thing is going to a hearing in Sacramento on whether we should label cloned meat, and the meat representative starts to explain that she thinks we should not because consumers would only be confused by having that information on the label. That gave me goosebumps! I realized that was the same thing they had said about GMOs and the growth hormones given to cows to make them produce more milk—

What’s interesting about that is that it’s a two-way issue: on the one hand, the growth hormones and the GMOs are widely known about know and they still confuse people. But at the same time it’s best that the information be out there, because then it’s up to the consumer to choose whether or not to process the information.
Well, maybe the liability comes on the person that’s producing a new product—maybe the ball’s in their court to explain why they think it’s better. I always thought, in a free market, if you have a product you think it’s better you advertise it! You don’t hide it. When you go to buy a car, they put the information on the window! Here we’re being told that it’s not good for us to know it. It’s too confusing.

You know, when Supersize Me came out it was hailed as the spiritual adaptation Fast Food Nation. Now that your film is coming out, people are saying yours might fill that role.
Well, even though Supersize Me was about fast food, it was basically about the fact that that food’s not good for you. But I think Eric’s book was about much more than that. It was really about the industrialization of the system: you know, how McDonald’s wanted to make a hamburger that was the same—and it’s not like they start out with bad intentions. Eric’s book is much more complex than Supersize Me, in a sense. It shows the evolution of how these things started to change. He talks about Carl [Karcher, founder] of Carl’s Jr., and he was a wonderful guy and you understand his journey! [Fast Food Nation] is about a number of American heroes. But, as McDonald’s started to want to have one taste worldwide, they didn’t want to buy meat from fifty producers; they wanted to buy from two or three so they could get uniformity. It’s this uniformity and efficiency and so on, this cheapness, that has ended up producing lots of calories at very inexpensive costs—which is a great thing. But unfortunately the food has become a lot less nutritious, and ultimately there’s come a great cost to this “low-cost” food. One example: when I was a kid, food cost 18% of our paycheck. Today food costs 9%, so that’s great. But when I was a kid healthcare cost 5% of our paycheck and today it costs 18%. And I think there’s a direct correlation. Somebody might say there’s no connection—

I think that’s ridiculous to say, considering how important nutrition is for health.
You know, the Greeks used to say, “Let food be your medicine and let medicine be your food.” There’s a total connection. And one third of Americans born after the year 2000 will have early-onset diabetes, and that’s going to affect our healthcare system.

Wait, it’s adult-onset diabetes that they’ll have, right?
Well, they changed the name to early-onset—

Type II.
Yeah. Type II.

I thought early-onset was type I.
Well, no, the other one is “early-onset” now, basically, because kids have started to get it. This has only happened since the advent of fast food! It’s a phenomenon that’s brand-new, and it comes with the fact that we’re eating more calories and the food is less nutritious so we don’t need to be eating more calories. And the calories—this is where we need to connect the dots—are being subsidized by the federal government. It’s corn and soy that are in 90% of the additives, so we’re subsidizing a food that is making us sick.

And in terms of being aware of what you’re eating—I mean, I live in NYC. And, although you don’t get the full nutritional value, I believe it is mandated by the city for food chains to list the calorie count. And I only recently discovered that it wasn’t that way in other states and cities, and I was shocked.
New York City has one of the best health commissioners, if not the best—Thomas Frieden—and he’s now going to become CDC under Obama.

Excellent!
And Bloomberg is really excellent on these issues. He’s great on health issues, and one thing I’ve realized is that this issue cuts across ideological boundaries. You don’t have to be a Democrat or a Republican to want healthy food. And the one thing I’ve realized—it’s going to be led by consumers that are going to be able to change the system. So we’re just going to have to demand it. We vote three times a day: at breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and we— [there is the noise of an airplane flying overhead] Hey, we’re probably sitting next to each other in the Central Park area.

I’m sorry?
I’m in Central Park. Where are you?

I’m in Central Park!
You know, I did this once where I was literally sitting right next to the person I was being interviewed by! [laughs] I’m at Seventy-Second on the West Side.

I’m on the West Side too, by the Great Lawn!
[laughs] You know, because I heard the airplane!

I was waiting on line this morning for Shakespeare in the Park tickets, and I didn’t have time to get home, so I had to find a quiet bench…
Yeah, that’s where I’m at. So—anyway! [laughs] I actually have to go in a few moments. Do you have any other questions?

Yeah, actually—I thought it would be interesting to hear what your take is on—well, obviously the really big food lobbyists, the meat and dairy industries and so on, seek to overplay the importance of those foods. But at the same time you also get books like Skinny Bitch and other diet books claiming dairy isn’t helpful at all and is even harmful. So I was wondering where you fell on this.
Well—listen, I think what we’re ultimately talking about is we need transparency in this industry. We need to know what’s in our food and we need to be able to make decisions on our own. And I think the more we know how much there are hidden costs in our food system, the more we’re going to want to change it. And in parallel to the fight against tobacco, we’re going up against big corporations—and in tobacco’s case they put out false information about the health of their product. And I think if people start to find out about the health of the subsidized processed foods that we’re paying for in a number of ways, then we’re going to start becoming more demanding. You know, one of the things that’s really interesting is that consumers have more power than they think they have. You’ve got to tell people, you know, “Start getting involved!” Because when we meet with people while we’re screening this film, they say they’re ready to go follow a movement. And they want to change things too. And I feel like change is a real growing movement that we’re going to be part of.

Food, Inc. is currently out in the U.S. in limited release. For more information about the film, visit its official website.

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