'Dare' actress Ana Gasteyer

This is another interview concerning the excellent film Dare, which follows three teenagers—Alexa (Emmy Rossum), Ben (Ashley Springer), and Johnny (Zach Gilford)—over their last semester of high school; in this time they take risks and form relationships with each other, and the consequences of these actions change all three of them profoundly. You might remember Ana Gasteyer (who plays Ben's mother Ruth) from Mean Girls, or maybe you even recognize her from her involvement in Broadway theatre. In this interview she and I discuss the nature of adolescence, the prevalence of therapist parents, and the frequency with which she and fellow Dare actor Alan Cumming have crossed professional paths.

We’re definitely going to talk about Dare; it’s an excellent film. But first I wanted to sneak this in: I’m a really big fan of Reefer Madness.
Oh, thank you! Thank you. I love that movie.

[laughs] Yeah, I love it. You worked with Alan Cumming in that movie, too, as well as in Dare, and you were in The Threepenny Opera together.
Yes! Yes, that’s three times. I mean, I didn’t really work with him on Dare because he wasn’t in any of my scenes, but I’m always thrilled anytime Alan is associated with anything. He’s such an incredible talent, and he’s just very professional and very easy and fun to be with. Whenever I hear he’s associated with something, its cred is sort of upped for me.

Well, how did you get involved with Reefer Madness?
You know, that was one of those awesome things that never happens. [laughs] Quite honestly, my management pushed hard, and my agent pushed hard, and the director was familiar with my work, and… I’m not a big fan of publicity, but there was a time during which I had a publicist when I was on Saturday Night Live and I had this really great photo shoot for some really hit magazine, and there were pictures from that shoot that the director took one look at and said “Oh my god, that’s our Mae!” So it was one of those things where it all just came together. Seriously, I think it’s only happened like three times in my career where the phone has rung and somebody’s been like, “We have an offer for you for this fantastic thing!” [laughs] I was like, “Oh, great! It’s a period movie; I get to sing my face off; it’s hilarious; I get to tap dance… it’s literally everything I could want!”

And you got to be covered in fake blood, too. [laughs]
Oh, yeah. That was probably the worst part of it because it was really sticky and I was breast-feeding at the time—my daughter was a year old at the time of that movie—it was so disgusting. I’m sure she’ll just have permanent scarring from that. But it was so sticky that it’s just like jelly, that fake blood, and it’s so meticulous in the way that they apply it, and I just had to wear it for like three weeks straight, or however long that amount of time was in the film. But it was really fun. I feel very lucky that I got to do it.

And it’s great, as you said, that you got to “sing your face off”, because I know that you do a lot of musical theatre work.
Yeah. That was early for me. I hadn’t done Wicked yet; I was really at the beginning of trying to break into that, and that’s sort of where I’m heading more and more lately. It was really a gift. I wish the movie had been released wide, on big screens, because they did an incredible cinematic job with these huge pieces of musical production. The director, Andy Fickman, did all these excellent numbers and made great use of the whole panorama, and it’s really hard to see on a small television screen the amount of detail they managed to pull off for the amount of money they made that for. It’s kind of unbelievable.

I know. Every time I watch it I notice new details.
Yeah, and it’s one of those things where musicals are just… because we especially have basically been raised in the music video, we’re used to a really fast cut and a ton of visual information when we hear music on TV, so in movies you really don’t need a whole lot of coverage; you can tell the story very simply, visually. But in Reefer Madness it’s really unbelievable the amount they packed in, and it’s a real credit to Andy because he’s so meticulous and had every shot planned to the inch. He managed to get a phenomenal amount of stuff—that movie was shot in six weeks. Unbelievable.

Six weeks!?
Yeah! It could take six months for a movie like that. Look at a film like Chicago or Nine, where they actually have a budget, you know?

No, I would never have been able to guess it had been filmed in six weeks. It seems like it would have taken several months to film.
And I was always really sad it never had a wide-screen release. Apparently at one time we had an opportunity, but Showtime had already paid for it and I think they really wanted it to be their thing. You know? Because they have all this cool stuff. Apparently a lot of German people saw it because it was co-financed by people from over there? [laughs] I hear from German people who have seen it all the time.

Did you watch the original Reefer Madness propaganda film?
Oh, yeah, we watched that when we were in preparation.

All right—let’s start talking about Dare. How did you get involved?
You know, it’s a fairly dramatic role for me—within certain limits, anyway—but I auditioned. My manager had been very involved with the project from the beginning; he’d seen the short that Adam [Salky, the director] and David [Brind, the screenwriter] had put together and he’d kind of championed it. He works with me and he works with Emmy and he works with Zach, and of course all of us had to prove our way in, but he definitely championed the project and got me there and probably championed me as well.

I mean, it’s definitely a more dramatic role than that in which you’ve typically been seen.
Yes, definitely. And even though I’ve done musicals and also been in a lot of similar situations this is obviously a much more conflicted part and more representative, in terms of what we do for Zach, of a more caring maternal role. It was fun to do.

There’s this one line your character says in the movie that goes something like “Every parent wants their kid to break the rules once in a while; it shows that they’re normal.”
Yeah, I think there’s that concern where… you know, her son is a little bit of an outsider, and I think she’s often painfully aware of how—part of your job as a parent is to allow your child to find their own way in the world. You have many moments as a parent where you have to stand on the outside and maybe watch your child not make the best choice all the time. You know, and I think that in Dare she’s very much concerned that her son is playing too close to the vest and being too careful; he’s something of an outsider and hasn’t really taken any chances, and she’s sort of encouraging that even though her son feels like she really shouldn’t be doing that. It might feel like she’s encouraging the wrong thing, but I think her feeling is that you’ve gotta find out who you are… nobody wants their kid to have to make the hardest choices, and I think the dawning awareness that he’s probably gay is hard on her in the sense that he’s probably going to have to stumble around and find himself a bit later than other kids do. So I think that’s what that line is about in that scene. And, of course, she’s a therapist; she’s “hip”; she’s dealing with these sorts of patients all the time, you know? That’s sort of what I experienced while playing her.

The therapist parent is a very familiar sort of thing here in New York.
Yeah… [laughter] It certainly is.

Part of what was so striking about the film is how honest it was. All the performances were so honest, especially from the kids, and I was shocked by how real it felt.
That’s lovely! That’s lovely to hear, and I think Adam’s a really good director and I think they cast for very bare and—like you said—honest portrayals. I don’t think anybody was trying to send up anything or make fun of anything; it’s sort of a counterpoint to all these big high school comedies, and we see high school comedies all the time. And the thing I love about the movie is it lives in this incredibly awkward place where it’s not all stereotypey—I mean, there’s the jock, and the outsider, but everybody’s kind of awkward. You know, it’s about when you’re trying to kind of figure out who you are, and I love that it doesn’t make these huge sweeping strokes about it and it’s not all that conclusive. It’s not like, “And then Alexa turned out to be a real jerk!” You know what I mean? The film kind of lives in this place where you do act out and you make these choices that you might kind of wish you hadn’t made, or that you needed to make…

And in keeping with the realistic feel— [laughs] I kind of like how awkward all the sexy scenes were, for a change!
Oh, totally! I totally agree with you. Like, they weren’t easy, and they weren’t all that romantic, and they weren’t—that’s exactly right. But they weren’t horrible either. I mean, the point of the movie wasn’t “Isn’t this embarrassing?” It’s more like “Sometimes you just have to take chances and figure out what you’re doing.”

Yeah. It’s not glamorous or awful; it just is.
And it feels daring, you know? Little things like that feel daring. Staying out all night for Ben is a huge deal! It’s like this really rebellious, kind of awkward thing that he does. And that’s what that morning-after scene was like, when Alexa was missing: there’s kind of this relief for the parents, in a strange way, when they’re starting to make independent choices. Even though it creates tension with your parents, like, it’s normal. That’s your job as teenagers: to figure out who you are. To grow up and away from your mom and dad.

Dare is currently in theatres.
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'Dare' actor Alan Cumming

There's this film out called Dare. You might have heard of it... especially if you've been reading Good Prattle's most recent interviews. In case you haven't, well, it's a film about three high school seniors looking to experience life in some way before they leave for college, and it's probably the most... nakedly... honest film about high school that has been released in several years. Alan Cumming, an absolutely brilliant veteran of both stage and screen, plays a highly successful school alum named Grant Matson who has returned to teach a master class in the theatre department; he is in the film for all of ten minutes—but his far-too-brief appearance serves as the catalyst for the entire plot. Herein we discuss this and other aspects of the film, as well as various other topics; enjoy!

When I spoke with Emmy Rossum she told me the Grant Matson role had initially been written for a woman. What do you think the gender flip changed about the scene?
I think it probably gave the scene a more sexually charged feel, and a bit more menace instead of just being a straight up bitchfest. I think the audience worries for Alexa that she is alone with this weird man!

In many ways Grant is, well, the catalyst for the whole plot. What’re your thoughts here?
It's great to play someone who, although he is onscreen for a short time, has a big effect on the film as a whole. I really like that. I like being in films where my character is talked about a lot—or, like in this, causes things to happen—because you seem to be in the film more than you really are, and you don't have to come to work so much!

Grant is technically a small, if extremely important, role but is still extremely memorable; how did you like playing him?
I loved playing him. It is such fun to be so mean and bitter and weird. I really enjoyed him. I don't like him, but I enjoyed being him.

What about this project compelled you to take part in it, particularly on such short notice?
I had been talking about it with David [Brind, the screenwriter] for a long time and he let me read it and I really enjoyed it. I was also aware of the problems they were having casting this role. I really responded to the way the film confounds your expectations of the characters and indeed its genre.

In the end Alexa and Johnny both end up having the precise relationships with acting that Grant predicted…
Totally. David Brind dropped a little clue for everyone, but at the time the audience is so repelled by this weird man being mean to little Alexa that i don't think we can take it on board.

It’s interesting, too, how their stories run parallel in opposite directions: she’s chasing after risks so as to become an actress but in the end finds herself with nothing; he’s desperate for some solace and ultimately turns to acting.
I think that aspect is a good lesson for life: if you try really hard to the point where you are desperate for something, you tend to give off an aura of desperation and you are not relaxed in what you are trying to achieve. I think it's better to let the path lead you than to try and run down the path.

What was it like working on that crucial scene with Emmy? She spoke absolutely glowingly of you, by the way.
She was great. I felt really bad being so mean but it was really fun and I think we both understood the dynamic of the scene really well so we were able to push it. I think she's great in the film and a lovely girl to boot.

In fact, what was it like working on a film assembled by such an incredibly young creative team across the board?
I hate young people. It was awful. No, it was great. It is exciting to be around people who are not jaded and are enthusiastic and eager—and have great talent!

How do you think this film departs from the standard adolescent cinematic fare today?
I think it totally subverts the whole genre, which I think is really exciting, and I hope it is able to be seen by enough people for that to be appreciated.

And why do you think people—teenagers in particular—should go see it?
I think they will see a story about their own age group that is not patronizing or predictable. And that, I assume, is a rare thing for them.

I know you had no scenes with her, but it must’ve been cool to work on yet another project with Ana Gasteyer...
She's great. I really love her and I was happy just to be in a film with her again. She totally cracks me up. I think she is one of the funniest women ever.

I realize this comparison is far out of left field, but Reefer Madness happens to be just about my favorite film of all time so please oblige me: how did that film differ from Dare?
It was utterly different. Dare was only a few days of my life, Reefer was several months. Sorry, I don't want to warble on and sound dopey trying to make comparisons 'cause there really aren't any!

How do you feel about working on super-small indie films like this as opposed to working on big-budget features—or even in theatre?
I try to mix and match. I think you come to each thing refreshed, having done something different previously. Also, I tend to get bored very easily, so it's good for me to mix things up.

Is there a medium you prefer? Do you ever use experience in one medium to enhance your performance in another?
Everything you do as a performer and as a person infuses what you bring to your work. The thing I value most is the variety and the ability to experience so many different things, so that I don't come to my work in a narrow, blinkered way.

I also spoke with Zach Gilford recently, and I actually almost missed that interview because I was conducting it from backstage at a rehearsal for my school play—which happens to be The Tempest, and I know you just did a film of that…
I have never been in the play before, but I have seen it many times. The thing that will make this film so different is the fact that Prospero has been changed to a woman, Prospera, played by Helen Mirren. I think it really alters the story from being one of familial vengeance to one of womanly healing and conciliation. It's amazing how a sex change can so alter the sensibility of a play!

Dare is currently in theatres in NYC and L.A. and it's amazing. Please go see it!
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'Dare' actor Zach Gilford

The film Dare is a dark, realistic drama about high school in which popular kid Johnny Drake, a second-semester high school senior, forms relationships with two outcasts named Alexa (Emmy Rossum, with whom we spoke last week) and Ben (Ashley Springer). The consequences of this new-found closeness change all three teenagers profoundly. Johnny is played by Friday Night Lights veteran Zach Gilford; I myself am at high school play rehearsal when he calls, and I miss him because my scene runs late. I call him back one minute later... and am immediately prevailed upon to go talk to my director. So I look at my phone, I look at my digital recorder, I look at my friend... and I do the most unprofessional thing possible: I shove the phone and recorder at the aforementioned friend and run out of the room. My director and I only talk for about a minute; after this I race backstage, relieving my friend of her impromptu duties, and this is the conversation that ensues.

Hi. I am so, so sorry. Here’s a bit of background: I’m a high school senior; I’m in rehearsal for my school play; and my scene went on longer than it was supposed to.
Don’t worry about it. Where are you?

I’m backstage in the greenroom.
I meant where do you go to school?

Oh! [laughs] I go to school in Brooklyn Heights.
Oh, cool. Nice!

Haven’t you worked with a program called ARCC for the past ten years?
Adventures Cross-Country, yeah. Well, not quite ten. I guess seven. I started doing it in college; I went to summer camp when I was a kid, and I did a lot of camping in high school and college, and then when I was old enough I applied for a job to take kids camping and luckily I got it. It’s been a fun job. It’s been a fun thing to do in the summer. Last summer I was in Costa Rica all summer, and, you know, there’s been Alaska, Australia, New Zealand…

That sounds incredible. Anyway, let’s talk about Dare! How did you get involved? Were you in the original short film?
No, I was not in the short. They made the short in grad school; it was like their grad school final project or something like that. But I made an audition tape in my apartment with my girlfriend, and then I flew to New York and met with the writer and director there and sat down and talked a little more about it. So it was a process, and I had to really make an effort to show to them that I really, really wanted to do it—to prove to them through the auditions that I could do it. And eventually they let me do it!

Well, you’re excellent in the film. You and Emmy and Ashley especially—your performances are so honest. They’re so… that’s how high schoolers act.
Well, thanks! That’s what I think drew us to the project. On the page it seemed very true to high school; it wasn’t High School Musical or something like that. I think in the movies a lot of times they put the characters in a box or in a stereotype and just have them play that, and I always say that’s not what it’s like in high school, and this movie I think is kind of about that fact: that you can’t just stereotype someone. There’s a lot more to them.

Yeah, absolutely. And, no, not everyone goes around having threesomes their second semester of senior year, but—
But some people do! [laughter]

Well, okay, yeah… [laughs]
No, but I know what you mean. No, that’s not what everyone does, but that’s the time where you kind of try to break out of your mold. And some people just don’t, and when they get to college that’s when they do, or maybe when they finish college. But… I’m not saying, specifically, that this is the way everyone goes about it, but things like this occur.

And that exact thing—daring oneself to go beyond one’s comfort zone—I mean, it’s in the name of the film. [laughter] It’s certainly the overarching theme, which is nice to see because that is what you feel like you should be doing at that time in your life.
Yeah. No, totally, I agree with you.

Alan Cumming’s character has a great line—I love how he’s just in one scene but he’s the catalyst for the entire film.
Yeah. But, I mean, it is Alan Cumming, so.

Right, so of course his role’s going to be important. But when he asks Alexa, “Have you really… done anything?”—I think that’s what a lot of people ask themselves around my age.
Right. Especially with characters like these, who come from good families or families that are financially well-off or stable, they take it for granted and you get to a point in your life where you’re like, “Jesus, I haven’t really experienced much! I’ve had a very sheltered life.” I know when I went to college, a lot of the people I went to school with—I was shocked by how sheltered they were. I couldn’t believe it. Like, they’d never met a Jewish person, or they’d never met a black person. We were in Chicago, and they’d hear like a dumpster banging and go “Was that a gunshot?!” and I’d be like “Are you serious?”

So you went to school in Chicago?
Yeah, I went to Northwestern, and I grew up in Chicago.

Nice. I have some friends who are applying to Northwestern, and I’m applying to UChicago.
Oh, that’s where my sister went!

I have a friend who goes there, and she’s absolutely in love with it. Chicago’s a really cool city.
Oh, yeah, it’s the best city. I can’t wait—I hope someday I get to move back there.

Or, you know, shoot a movie there!
Well, yeah, yeah, that’d be cool too.

But when you grow up in a city you’re almost sheltered in a different way. You’re surrounded by people who are far more liberal and by far more experiences than are normal than in the rest of the country.
Yeah. No, I couldn’t agree with you more. You’re sheltered from people who are… yeah, you put it perfectly. You’re sheltered from people who disagree with you, or who are a little more closed-minded or haven’t had as much life experience. Like, it’s hard to believe there are people like that out there, because growing up social liberalism is all you’ve known.

Exactly. For example, the gay marriage thing? If you live in NYC it’s hard to fathom that there are actually people who are against that. But they make up a significant part of the country!
A large part. I mean, I’ve been living in Texas on and off for about four years, and so I’ve definitely met some of those kinds of people.

There would be some of those people there. [laughs] That’s where you shoot Friday Night Lights, right?
Yeah.

I don’t watch the show, but my—[laughs] my friend, whom you were talking to before I ran in, is a fan and she says that it’s a very down-to-earth portrayal of high school. I was wondering how you’d contrast the role of Matt in Friday Night Lights with the role of Johnny in Dare.
Well, the character I play on Friday Night Lights is a lot more meek. A little more introverted. A big similarity that they have is they both have this more vulnerable side, so—if you start watching the show, you should start at the beginning of the series. I think you’ll get into it. Ask your friend; she’ll sell you on it.

She’s trying! Now that I’m talking to you I might feel obligated.
Yeah, you totally should. But you should feel more obligated to—Dare opens on the 13th, just in New York and L.A., and if it does well they might expand it, so make sure you get all your friends to go see Dare.

Yeah, when I saw Dare I thought it was incredible and ever since I’ve been saying to my friend, “You know what you should see? You know who’s in it?”
[laughs] Well, thank you.

I mean, it’s a great film. I think it needs to be seen. It was shot fairly quickly, right?
Yeah, we shot it in four weeks. Maybe five weeks? I think it was four. But basically we shot it in May of… 2008? I think?

That’s impressive.
[laughs] Thanks. We were knocking it out pretty quick. But we had a great time. We all got along really well; it was a lot of fun. Even the filmmakers were close to our age. They were just turning 30, and we were all in our mid-to-early 20s.

Yeah, when I talked to Emmy she said everyone working on the film was super young.
Yeah, which was really cool. It was a lot of fun.

Your character, Johnny… he’s popular, he’s always surrounded by a lot of people, but at the end of the day he’s the loneliest, the one who’s most in need of companionship.
Well, yeah, I remember the writer David Brind talking about how one of the things with writing this film was the idea of the popular kid growing up in high school—where does that kid go when he gets home? What is his life like? Is it something you’d imagine it would be, like, is it popular and cool, or is it something else? Yeah, so I think he delved into that and the fact that just because everybody thinks you’re really cool doesn’t mean you’re enjoying yourself too thoroughly.

And then at the end, instead of going to college like everyone else, he’s the most disillusioned one, I guess, and he’s the one that ends up turning to acting. Instead of Alexa, who arguably wants it the most.
Yeah. And I think part of that, also, if you go back to Alan Cumming’s scene… I think his whole thing throughout the movie, and why he establishes these relationships with Alexa and Ben, is because they’re the only people who ever showed what he thought was genuine interest in him. And it seems as if they cared about him. When Alan Cumming’s there, he says to Johnny, “Oh, you’re good! You have talent!” or whatever and shows interest, and this is the only time in his life that anyone’s ever said to him “Oh, you’re good! You can do this!” So I think this is kind of a similar thing: he’s still attaching himself to something that someone gave him positive feedback in.

Yeah. That’s such an interesting… like… parallel between him and Alexa, because her life is the opposite of what you just described, and the ending really helps bring that full circle.
Well, cool! Thank you.

All right, I think I should go… and then I need to explain why [laughs] first I missed your call and then I had my friend talking to you for several minutes…
Don’t worry about it. Don’t worry about it at all. You actually gave—this is probably the best interview I’ve had all day. You asked great questions and it was well-thought out, so I appreciate it.

Wow, well, I appreciate the compliment! Thank you very much.
What play are you working on?

The Tempest.
Oh, cool! Who are you playing?

I’m in the ensemble.
All right! Well, no shame in that.

No, not at all!
You know, Alan Cumming just did a movie of that. Well, good luck! Break a leg.

Thank you! It was great talking with you.
It was great talking to you too.

Dare opens this weekend in NYC and LA. Go see it if you can; it's an absolutely excellent film!
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'Dare' actress Emmy Rossum

Emmy Rossum is probably best-known for her turn as Christine in the film adaptation of The Phantom of the Opera; almost every article written about her stresses the fact that she was an opera singer as a young girl. But in the film Dare, in which she delivers what is arguably her best performance ever, there is nary a song in sight—or, rather, in earshot. In this film she plays Alexa, a good girl who has never really done anything other than get good grades and entertain the notion of being an actress. After a particularly resonant confrontation with an actor she idolizes (Alan Cumming), Alexa tries to completely remake herself as a risk-taker in her last semester of high school; her actions trigger equally unusual behavior in two other seniors—her best friend Ben (Ashley Springer) and bad boy Johnny (Zach Gilford)—and the consequences affect all three teenagers profoundly. In this interview Miz Rossum and I discuss the filmmakers, the film, and the fuckery of adolescence.

Hey, Emmy, it’s great to speak with you. How are you?
I’m good! How are you?

I’m good. I saw Dare last week and thought it was… fantastic. How did you get involved?
Well, I’d just gotten off a big Hollywood studio picture and really wanted to get back to what I’d started in this business doing: storytelling, telling stories about characters… I mean, I started in indies, so I was kind of looking for a project like that. And I got sent the short film, actually, also called Dare, that was made by the same writer-director team when they were students at Columbia film school. And I was so impressed by their—it was actually just the pool scene between the two boys. The Alexa character was very peripheral in the short film. But I was so impressed by the director and the dialogue and its honest, refreshing, awkward, funny take on young sexuality that I really wanted to be part of it.

I was about to say—it’s so honest. Especially you and the other two teenagers. It’s just—I’m speaking as a high school senior and I felt like I recognized it all.
So you’re a senior.

Yeah. I am.
Oh, cool. That’s amazing. See, that’s the most exciting thing about getting feedback about this movie; we have, like, actual high school and college people coming up and telling us that it’s a very realistic depiction of what happens. Of course, everyone’s parents are completely mortified hearing that, but!

[laughs] Well, not all high school seniors are having polyamorous…
Threesomes.

Yeah, exactly. But the way that the characters speak to each other, the way that they behave, is so real.
And that’s probably also indicative of the fact that everyone who worked on the film was really young. Like our director is only in his late twenties and our writer is just thirty, so everyone on the project—I mean, everyone down to P.A.s, hair and makeup, grips, everyone was just really young. And green, in a way, and that’s what gave us this freshness, I think.

Wow, I didn’t realize that. That’s amazing.
Yeah, it’s super. Super cool.

Some of the most striking lines actually came from the adults, I feel, like Alan Cumming’s character asking Alexa if she had ever felt threatened and had ever particularly had any experiences.
Well, I’m glad. I think we were definitely trying to tell a story about three people and an interconnected love triangle, and show these people… I think when you’re in high school and you’re growing up it’s so easy to categorize everyone else in your class or in your grade, or write them off, even, like “That person’s just a jock,” or “That person’s so popular. That person’s got it good.” And you never really think, “What’s that person like when they’re sitting in their room by themselves? How do they feel about themselves? How do they feel about love and sex and the way they’re going with their life?” I don’t think anybody, even the most popular, wonderful girl in school, even if she’s a narcissistic… biotch, wakes up in the morning and goes, like, “It’s awesome to be me!”

[laughs]
You know what I mean? You always think that other people have it easier, like, “If I were a loner I wouldn’t have all this attention on me,” or “If I were a jock I could have any girl in school that I wanted.” So I think it really flips the coin on its head that nobody is really totally happy in high school.

Right. I mean, I can tell you that’s pretty much true. How was it like working on that scene with Alan Cumming, by the way? I’m a total fangirl; he’s awesome.
It was awesome. That part was actually originally written for a woman.

Oh, really!
And the actress who had been hired to play it had agreed to do it while shooting another movie in Boston… I think it was supposed to be Parker Posey. And it didn’t work out at the last minute, and our writer had done a workshop on a play with Alan and they decided to make it into a male character. And for me it worked so much better because Alexa is being attacked by this sort of male energy, and it spurs her on to go, in that way.

Right. And when he asks her if she’s ever been threatened—because part of the thing about that is that he is threatening to her—I think that if that role had been played by a woman…
And, even though he’s kind of flamboyantly gay, he’s her idol and he’s this very kind of imposing figure who’s very important in her life, and he is very threatening to her, and he does kind of shake her world up. And Alan is such a good actor and he’s so fun to do scenes with. I remember after take he’d be like, “I’m sorry I have to be so mean to you!”

Awww!
And I’d be like, “It’s okay, it’s okay! You’re not being mean to me, you’re being mean to Alexa. I can take it; she can’t!”

[laughter] I’ve got to say, the end of the film… it was sort of like a sock in the gut to see all three characters so disillusioned by the end. Like, “Well, damn.”
Yeah. It’s kind of like, they start and they haven’t really experienced much and they all kind of force themselves and in the process they get entangled with each other and they kind of… destroy each other, in a way. I think you always think that everyone can have an effect on you but you can’t really have an effect on anyone else. And you don’t realize that everything you say, even if it’s a joke or just a one-line comment to somebody, might stick with them and it might really, really affect them.

Right. And what happened to Alexa particularly resonated because she’s this solid, smart girl who could easily go to college and have a great career that way, but what she wants is to be an actress. So it’s this, like… feeling even more pressure than usual not to follow that because you’re so completely set if you go the typical route.
Right. And I think she longs for that kind of… emotional… you know, emotional release, that Alan Cumming’s character tells her, “You’re just not cut out for this. You’re just not bred—you’re, like, emotionally and physically constipated. You’re just a constipated person,” and when she realizes that she sort of goes about her transformation as deliberately as she does everything else. That’s why it feels like she’s pretending. I feel like a lot of people, when they try to figure out who they are, try on a lot of different scenarios. You get a nose ring, or you’ll try black eyeliner, or you’ll try to be popular, or punk rock, and finally you just find your way. Hopefully.

I mean, you were acting in high school so I imagine your high school experience was somewhat less typical. But I wonder what it was like for you to reach back only a couple of years to play such a blatantly teenage character.
Right. I mean, I really liked that. This was, like, the closest I’ve ever gotten to a high school classroom. I had a very atypical school experience; I left school in seventh grade and did all of high school on the internet because I was already traveling and working, so it was definitely the closest I’ve gotten to a high school cafeteria and high school students surrounding me. But it was really fun. I mean, I love my job and I love what I do. I do sometimes wish that I could have had everything, but you can never have everything in life. You know, I wish I had gone to prom, and I wish I had gone to college and played a lot of beer pong and gotten really imbued with this coming-of-age, but I did that in other ways in life.

Yeah. And you grew up in New York, right?
Yeah, I did.

So growing up in high school in New York is still not that normal anyway! [laughs]
No. Not your normal Americana suburban high school experience at all.

Yeah. I’m calling you from Brooklyn right now. I’m on my lunch break.
Sweet.

Dare opens in select theatres on November 13th... a.k.a. this Friday. If you live in New York or in any other area lucky enough to have this film playing nearby, for the love of god, go see it. It's excellent.
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